cromulentenough:

napoleonchingon:

cromulentenough:

shieldfoss:

cromulentenough:

napoleonchingon:

kertik:

nabokovsshadows:

kazbreker:

What… about Islam, then? Anything new and interesting to report, or is it still the same? (x)

Back at it again with ignoring large parts of the Quran and Hadith to project a candy floss photoshopped version of Islam. Of course tumblr will eat this up since it’s full of clueless westerners terrified to admit Islam is anything but 100% positive. Since their entire moral universe revolves around race.

that awkward moment when all hate towards women, non believers, atheists, homosexuals and the concept of hellfire is well elucidated in the quran..

and then people handpick the flowery and pacifist things in islam. “don’t dwell around these verses, dwell around this one! On one hand our religion is perpetuating hatred and on one hand it’s criticising it! Inconsistency is so beautiful”

Missing moods comment: religious foundational texts contain hateful and violent shit. Islam is quite bad in this sense (since it was a political as well as religious movement basically immediately) but not at all unique. Y’all who are all like “why was there an Enlightenment for Jews and Christians and not for Muslims?” should be fucking cheering as hard as fucking possible for people like the woman in the original gifset. The only way forward from the point of view of people who don’t want violent strains of Islam to flourish (which group you are at least pretending to be part of) is for many muslims to convince themselves that Islam preaches nonviolence. The fact that you are unhappy when people handpick the portions of Islam that are nonhateful and nonviolent is ridiculous.

Wanting to reform islam = cool. I dont think it’s the only way forward like you seem to, but an admirable pragmatic goal. Sure. Also violence is not the only problem I have with islam.

Pretending that the bad bits dont exist and have nothing to do with islam im less ok with. Theres reform judaism but theres also ultra orthodox judaism, do you say the ultra orthodox ones ‘have nothing to do with judaism’?

Also, some of us who used to believe in that stuff based on reading the texts dont always apreciate being told we were lying about our beliefs.

From the outside, it is also very hard to see if she’s ignorant or lying.

I follow an American on twitter who is very anti-muslim (anti lots of things really) and when he hears “religion of peace” from a muslim, 

he doesn’t hear “I am a peaceful person,” he hears “I am lying to you so you won’t notice my violence.”

And when he hears “religion of peace” from a non-muslim, he doesn’t hear “We should accept the refugees because it is not a problem,” he hears “I want to accept the refugees because they’ll vote Democrat so we can win over you Republicans, and if they are violent it’s not my problem in my gated community.”

(Note: None of this is helped when actual Islamic reformers end up on lists purporting to show anti-muslim bigots)

Yup islamic reformers getting branded as bigots is common, and get this, the type to do that ALSO tend to be the type to say islam is perfect as it is and theres no prpblems with violence or the sexism/ homophobia etc.

Regarding thinking youre lying, I mean also the fact that many of the type to be pro homophobia/ sexism/ violence etc. Etc. ALSO do say similar things to make islam seem more palatable doesnt help things. e.g. whenever a scholar is asked about the death penalty for apostasy, often they dont deny it because they can’t but try to weasel word out of it and make it seem more palatable. And if you know who anjem choudhury is, you’ll see trying to dress the worse bits of what he believes up and complaints about islamophobia etc.

I dont think the woman in the gif is lying, but the existence of those that do means you cant always just take people at their word.

We have no context for this gifset is the issue. The crucial question for this woman, and also for muslim reformers is: who is their audience? I am not a muslim, so by definition I am not the central audience for muslim reformers. But the very same message can be either reformist or empty PR depending on whether it’s directed at muslims or at non-muslims. I interpreted the woman as speaking to muslims – perhaps that is not what is happening.

All that said, “lying” is not a good terminology to use here in any case because Islam is not its foundational text. You can claim “the quran treats women as equals to men“ for example is a false statement, but Islam itself is something that can and does change.

ETA: my last sentence should be less only about change but also about having multiple interpretations/emphases.

Lying in this context I mean ‘I believe x is a parr of islam but im prete ding its not for the audience to make it more palatable’. Hence why I said I dont think she is lying but I would say someone else saying the same thing could be.

That exactly.

And

there is room to talk about how Islam could become a unifying force in the mid-east, or about how charity is literally one of the five pillars, or other things in that direction – I don’t particularly believe she’s lying, but I cannot tell the difference between whether she has always perceived Islam as a religion of peace or whether she’s actively deceiving.

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